RE: [RML]

Dan Deavours (deavours at ittc.ku.edu)
Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:23:59 -0700

Julie,

> I am currently using Genesis at 3 drops/gallon, and frequently do
> very large
> changes of 50% or more. Works great and much cheaper than Amquel
> and Prime.
> I am a big fan of those 2 products, please don't get me wrong, but I would
> go broke using them as I have about 90 tanks to try and keep up
> with. ;-)
> I keep those kinds of products around, but for a more specialized
> use, such
> as for new tanks or emergency ammo-removing. I do not use them everyday
> anymore.

I was using 4+ drops/gallon, usually 15 drops for 3.5 gal, and it was
woefully inadequate for my water. Let the hobbyist beware! Also, if for
some reason the water company decides they need to temporarily increase the
chlorine content. . . .

Dan Deavours
ITTC - University of Kansas
2335 Irving Hill Road
Lawrence, KS 66045-7612
deavours at ittc.ku.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rainbowfish at pcug.org.au
> [owner-rainbowfish at pcug.org.au]On Behalf Of bowluvr
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:09 AM
> To: rainbowfish at pcug.org.au
> Subject: Re: [RML]
>
>
> OK...
>
> I keep waiting for Gary to say something regarding this thread,
> but since he
> has yet to surface, I feel I need to say something here. ;-)
>
> I do not agree with this post, at least to the extent that one
> cannot use a
> standard dechlorinator when dealing with chloramines. In some
> circumstances,
> one CAN, and quite safely. I have been doing so for the past 6 years and
> have yet to lose a fish to this practice. It was Gary, in fact, who got me
> started on this. :-) Got on my case about it is probably a
> more accurate
> term, but, hey, everyone needs a good lecturing once in awhile,
> right? ;-P
>
> There are a few rules I follow, mainly 1) that I double the dose
> (or triple
> it sometimes), as this is necessary to make sure the chemical
> bond is broken
> and the chlorine is realeased and neutralised. 2) I also never use a
> standard dechlorinator in a newly established (or
> bacterially-compromised...
> How's that for fancy verbiage?) tank, as there is nothing there to take up
> the ammonia.
>
> I have used this in hard, alkaline water (Phoenix, AZ where the
> pH is 8 and
> it breaks your sink falling out of the tap) as well as my current soft,
> acidic Portland tap water. It works fine.
>
> Gary's argument was simple: active, funtioning bio and/or plant
> filters will
> take up any ammonia as soon as it's released. Besides that, the amount
> released from the new water is quite small. I keep everything from
> rainbowfish, to South American and West African cichlids, to killies, to
> catfish, to Tanganyikan cichlids... many of which are highly sensitive to
> both chlorine and ammonia, esp the Tanganyikans. I have never, ever had a
> problem.
>
> I am currently using Genesis at 3 drops/gallon, and frequently do
> very large
> changes of 50% or more. Works great and much cheaper than Amquel
> and Prime.
> I am a big fan of those 2 products, please don't get me wrong, but I would
> go broke using them as I have about 90 tanks to try and keep up
> with. ;-)
> I keep those kinds of products around, but for a more specialized
> use, such
> as for new tanks or emergency ammo-removing. I do not use them everyday
> anymore.
>
> So, to flat-out say that you cannot use a straight dechlorinator for
> chloramine-treated water is not necessarily true.
>
> Gary?? Your comments? ;-)
>
> Down off my soapbox now.
> Julie <><
>
>
>
> > On 28 Aug 2001, at 13:36, Dan Deavours wrote:
> >
> > > I called the water company to see what's up. They're putting in 3.5
> > > PPM chlorine in the form of chloramine since they provide water up to
> > > 40 miles away.
> >
> > Treating with standard declorinators releases the
> > ammonia in the chloramine. DON'T use the standard
> > declorinator!
> >
> > > I don't know what's "normal," but 3.5 PPM seems kind of high. What
> > > kind of dosage do I need to be using? Also, if I'm using water with
> > > 3.5PPM chloramine and dechlorinate, do I get 3.5PPM amonia when I'm
> > > done? Yikes!
> >
> > 3.5 ppm = 35 g/L which is alot!
> >
> > > I also learned that the pH is high, like around 8.5, maybe as high as
> > > 9, never below 8. They raise it primarily with lyme. I think I'm
> > > fated to never be able to grow plants. Apparently the reason the pH
> > > is high is because of lead and copper used in the water systems. That
> > > seems to be typical in the midwestern US, or at least that's what it's
> > > been like the last 3 places I've lived. Is there an easier way of
> > > de-lyming water, except something like RO?
> >
> > The high pH means that most of the ammonia will be
> > ammonia! not ammonium so it will be a very dangerous
> > situation! You will have to bring down the pH or do
> > smaller water changes.
> > Yes! you can grow plants. Most of the floating plants
> > will be able to take it and will also suck up the
> > ammonia if there is enough light.
> > To bring down the pH and hardness use peat. Iether place
> > the peat in the tank or condition the water with peat
> > before doing water changes. This will also help with the
> > chloramine.
> >
> > I'm also concerned with the high copper and lead levels
> > you mention. Do you have values. Copper and lead are
> > very toxicc even at low levels (0.02 ppm!).
> >
> > The peat will adsorb and precipitate much of the lead
> > and copper but maybe not enough.
> >
> > I think an RO unit is the best bet if the peat idea
> > doesn't pan out.
> >
> > Bye
> >
> > Tyrone Genade
> > tyronegenade at yahoo.com
> > http://www.geocities.com/tyronegenade
> >
> > *************************************************************
> > P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
> > University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
> > Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
> > **********************************************************
> >
> > "No, the LORD has told us what is good. What He requires
> > of us is this: to do what is just, to show constant love,
> > and to live in humble fellowship with our GOD."
> > Micah 6:8
> >
>