Further, given my humble opinion that this fish looks a whole lot like a
pumped-up parkinsoni, how did they intensify the parkinsoni-like color with
a cross? Normally, crosses tend to blend the colorations of the species,
but these fish just look like super-parkinsoni. That's why I spring the
hormone suggestion as another alternative. To me, that's just as bad as a
cross from the supplier's point of view, but I worry less about the species
purity if I see it in a display tank. That's the other reason I ask about
fertility. Fertility might say something about chemical tampering with the
fish, even if it does not say anything about cross-breeding.
The other question that comes up if these are crosses is why do they all
look male? I did'nt think the Florida guys were holding females of
relatively common rainbows. I think it supports the hormone theory.
Until, of course, there's a real good, substantiated story that supports
the cross-breed theory.
BTW - let's get real. I have two excellent fish stores in my area, run by
guys that really know their fish. But they need to make money too, and
frankly, the bright red on these Marci's shows from across the room. They
sell and pay the bills. Meanwhile, the lacustrus and boesmani that are
coming in from Florida at similar prices are washed out, and in my opinion,
just as cross-bred. I have not seen a lacustrus in even a good quality
store that really looks like a lacustrus for about 4 years now. These guys
would sell "real"quality rainbows if they could get them at a price, but if
the only place to get them is private breeders, they just won't make enough
money on them to justify the price. I am not saying this is right, I'm
saying this is business. "Perfectionist" aquarists like ourselves make up
only a small portion of the clientel from these shops, so I doubt "we" will
ever change their minds.
However, "we" can certainly refuse to buy them ourselves. Especially if we
have the information that says they are not "pure" or "true". That's the
#1 reason for my original question, and why I won't buy any.
Meanwhile, I guess I need to ask, even though it will probably provoke spam
from those that don't read carefully. Should we really care if
nice-looking crosses are sold, as long as they are NOT represented as a
"pure" species. If Marci are crosses, who cares if they are sold? The
purists will still keep the bloodlines pure, and the crosses should not
bother them. If they are not known as parkinsoni, they would not normally
be propagated as parkinsoni by non-purists (why would you spawn a male and
female Marci and then try to call it anything else?). And in the case of
Marci, the store has a really NICE looking rainbowfish to offer the
majority of it's customers - perhaps turning them on to all rainbows.
Seems to me this beats the heck out of trying to push ugly gray-blue,
red-lined lacustrus at people for $7 each and telling them rainbowfish
really DO look nice! I can understand not wanting to propagate ugly
crosses, but this one is really attractive.
You will undoubtedly argue that if they can spawn and pay for crosses, they
should rather spawn and pay for "pure" strains. My counter arguement in
this case is that because the Marci's look so much better and more intense
than a normal parkinsoni, that there is simply no contest from a retailer's
point of view. There simply is no value to 90% of the customers that that
is not a "pure" strain fish. All they know is that, given the choice, they
want the "pretty" fish, especially at that price.
Tom
----------
From: Gary Lange[SMTP:gwlange at stlnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 1997 10:48 PM
To: rainbowfish at pcug.org.au
Subject: Re: [RML] RE: The hubbub
see Cary's comments, he is right. Go back tell your petshop owner you're
mad.
Try and get your money back if you bought them. If enough people complain
maybe they'll stop bringing them in. I guess I'm going to have to buy one
of
them to photograph too so we can point out the differences to people.
Fertile doesn't matter, shame on you for even bringing it up. Most crosses
are
fertile regardless of what the German :-) says! We've seen too many of
them
over here in the US breeding (unfortunately.)
Buy your fish only from known sources, learn how to hatch eggs from mops so
you
can obtain more quality rainbows cheaper. Avoid going though the "genetic
funnel" by only having a pair or two to work with.
thanks for thinking about bows instead of canned meat!
----------
> From: Tom Mroz <tmroz at art-inc.com>
> To: 'rainbowfish at pcug.org.au'
> Subject: [RML] RE: The hubbub
> Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 10:56 AM
>
> Seems to me that if everyone asking questions about why there is no
rainbow
> talk had asked a rainbow question or made a rainbow observation, the
issue
> of [SPAM] would be moot.
>
> So, let me try to help with a small question I have had for some time.
>
> Anybody know for sure what M. "marci" is? They show up in stores around
> here and look like a hormone-treated M. parkinsoni. Store people I have
> asked have given various answers including the parkinsoni comment. I
also
> note that ALL of the fish come in with color, which means either they are
> all males (finnage suggests they are, in fact), or that they are indeed
> hormone-treated.
>
> If they are parkinsoni, are they pure strain? Can they/should they be
> spawned with "normal" parkinsoni females? Are they fertile? Anybody
come
> accross spawnable, fertile females listed as Marci?
>
> An other thoughts/observations on this topic?
>
> Tom
>