Re: [RML] Water changes and disease

Rhonda Wilson (rhonda at naturalaquariums.com)
Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:14:11 -0700

Hey Julie,

Julie Zeppieri wrote:

> A good friend of
> mine (and on this list) maintains all sorts of heavily planted and
> lightly
> stocked tanks, and she not only does w/out filters, but also w/out
> air. Her
> tanks and fish are gorgeous and the fishroom is so quiet it's unreal.
> ;-p.
> Considering how hectic her life gets, my guess is she also does not do as
> many water changes as one would normally recommend. Not sure how many or
> what kind of bows she keeps any longer, but she used to have a few.
> Bows do
> tend to appreciate some current tho, and her tanks mostly don't have that.

Gosh now I wonder who that person could be, probably no one I know. Ok
I know I'm a little late but I have been thinking about chiming in, it's
that hectic life thing that keeps getting in the way. And yes I would
like to do more water changes than I do. I would say in general they go
about a month between but sometimes I know it's more and sometimes when
I'm trying to do photos or there's an issue of some sort, or maybe I
just like the tank, they can get a lot more. I would have to say that
plants and algae like water changes as they both tend to grow much
better with more changes. I still think water changes should be done.

Yes you can have a tank for a long time with very few or none. But I
believe that some things will build up in the tank and some things need
to be added that will only happen with water changes. So I think while
it's possible with the right combination of fish and plants that you can
get by with very few, I don't think that none ever is a good idea and I
think the chemistry of the water will change over time without water
changes.

(Now here's where I may get into trouble) that being said I don't like
the constant water change approach either. I don't disagree that it can
produce fast growing fish or that individually if kept in that situation
they may be healthier. However if something goes wrong or if the fish
raised that way get into tanks that this approach is not followed, they
are way more likely to not survive than fish that are raised in tanks
with more moderate care. And this isn't just me. I've talked to several
other people that have experienced this too. I know someone who keeps
their livebearers this way. Beautiful fish, wonderful rare species, but
almost no one else can keep this persons fish alive. I haven't talked to
them much in recent years but I believe in they had their system set up
in the past to do a couple changes a day. So I have to wonder if the
ultra pure many water changes system is creating fish that have lower
immunities or just create systems in the fish that are totally
intolerant to any other conditions. Kind of like they're saying now that
kids not exposed to the dirt and pets of normal life are more likely to
have problems with asthma.

Back to tanks without water changes though and some of my thoughts on
fish tanks in general. And please remember these are just thoughts I've
come up with through observation, I could be way off. I think that
aquariums are little mini systems. It seems to be pretty established
that bacteria are responsible for cleaning up the water even with a
filter. It also pretty much seems that if there's some sort of thing
that can be utilized (eaten) that something will come in and use it.
Nature abhors a vacuum. :) I also believe that different plants and
animals whether snails or fish or those bacteria or whatever else might
be in the tank, all take in different nutrients and foods and release
different wastes, which turn in to something else's nutrients and foods.
I believe that these interactions determine the character of the tank.
For me one of the things I really like about keeping aquariums is the
surprise of what it will turn out like. Some people like to control
things more. I somewhat doubt they have as much control as they think
they do on the system but if their methods are working for them and
keeping them happy great. I tend to like to be a watcher. Even if I see
doom coming in the form of a new algae plague, I tend to watch rather
than intervene right away. I just like to see what will happen if I
don't do anything. Of course if it's a disease or something that seems
like it may threaten the health of my fish I will of course do whatever
I can to alleviate the problem. Anyway back to tanks and their
individual characteristics. One of the main reasons I think this way is
because in my fishroom of about 80 tanks, they all generally get about
the same water changes over the long run, except in rare cases that I
haul in RO for special fish, they all get the same type of water, what
comes out of the tap, and they get about the same foods. Still I can
have 2 tanks side by side under the same light and some plants will grow
in one but not the other and vice versa. Even very easy to grow things
like hornwort or duckweed will sometimes just not grow in some tanks.
Since I'm putting the same things into these tanks I have to think the
issue is what's going on inside them and all the chemical changes all
the plants and animals, even the microscopic ones, are creating.

And that brings me back to tanks that don't get water changes, unless
the water gets really terrible it's not at all surprising that some fish
and some plants will survive in a tank without water changes or with
very few. I think a lot of what will live in one particular persons
tanks under those conditions will have a lot to do with what else is in
the tank and the water they start with in the first place. I do think it
will place more limits on what will survive, will make it more difficult
to get some new fish or plants to survive in those conditions.
Particularly with the no water changes. How many time have you heard
people talk about their tanks that they've had for years, never do water
changes, have the same fish in they've had all this time but every new
fish they put in the tank dies? I've heard this story many times. The
old fish get used to it over time, but the new fish can't take the
horrible water. Anyway that's a very long explanation of my thoughts on
water changes. I think they're good, I think they should be done, but I
think that if you do them too much you may end up with weakened fish.

As to Mycobacterium I don't have much to say but I would like to say
something about ich. I think Gary mentioned and I've read this before
that ich is supposed to be everywhere and usually gets fish when they
are stressed. This may be true in aquarium stores and big breeders in
Florida but I really, really don't believe that it's true in most
hobbyists fish rooms. I've gotten ich in my fishroom twice in the last
10 years. Both times it was after putting store bought fish into a tank
of my fishroom fish. It has never just popped up in my tanks, ever
without introduction of a fish from a pet store. I don't believe that
there is ich in my tanks just waiting around for a stressful event to
get my fish. I don't think it's in there unless I bring in a fish that
has it. Most of my fish, come from other home breeders. I think these
fish don't have much immunity to it because they aren't exposed to it.
That's why I think when my fish do get it, it's so deadly. As an aside
to that, Diana, not long after I read your article on treating ich in
TFH I got my last case. My own fault, I put a new oto in a tank, I lost
all the fish in that tank because I tried the regular treatment first.
But I did finally save the second tank it got in to (which was the tank
below the first one and probably got hit when I was pulling fish out of
the infected tank above it, from water drops) using a combination of 3
sterilized bowl changes a day and drugs. I was very happy to save these
fish (Xenoophorus sp. "Illescas") because I don't know if anyone else
even has them in the states at this point. The fry that survived are
almost grown now and the adults have had more fry so Yeah! and Thanks. :)

Ok that's enough of my babbling now, not sure if I said anything worth
while but there it is anyway. :)

Rhonda
http://naturalaquariums.com/