Re: [RML] species maintenance(bullsh*t)

Roy Hunter (rainbows01 at sprynet.com)
Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:18:16 -0700

What are you smoking pot now Pete? You actually made some sense! I thought I
would never hear anything like that from you! Good on ya

Oh by the way... You are a dickhead and asshole but I still like you. Lord
knows why... so there is a little flaw in your theory. :-) I guess my main
bitch is how Gary and sometimes Cary as well have this holier than the world
EGO and it is bullshit and I am sick of the way Gary treats other people bad
mouths other people in this hobby and he has taken the fun out of it for a
lot of people. It seems to me anyway Cary is riding in the same wagon. This
hobby is to be enjoyed by all in any capacity they desire.

Roy Hunter
Co-Chairman
ANGFA of North America
visit the ANGFA website at:
http://www.angfa.org
reach me at:
roy at angfa.org
-----Original Message-----
From: peter.unmack at ASU.Edu <peter.unmack at ASU.Edu>
To: rainbowfish at pcug.org.au <rainbowfish at pcug.org.au>
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [RML] species maintenance(bullsh*t)

>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Roy Hunter wrote:
>
>> I couldn't give a rats ass if Gary likes me. My point is
>> the lack of the clubs working together because of personal grudges.
>
>Roy, what you fail to understand here is that you cannot piss someone off
>to the point where they no longer wish to have anything to do with you and
>expect them to work with you and then just call it politics. You may be
>able to do this, but most people can not. Sure, antagonism is never one
>sided, but burnt bridges are rarely mended. Now don't go thinking I am
>pointing the finger directly at you, we can all be petty and antagonistic
>at times much to our own disbenefit. I've done it myself many times. I'm
>just trying to get you to consider the other side of the fence.
>
>Also, publically dragging up mud and evidence to support your case against
>Gary and/or the RSG does nothing to help reconciliation (which is what you
>are trying to achieve here right?), let alone the rainbowfish hobby. It's
>one thing to defend yourself against potential mistruths, which we all
>have a right to do, but also consider the greater implications of your
>actions. Does you proving that Gary did this, or Gary proving that Roy
>did that really help the situation? If you really wanted to help things
>you would say lets forget about the past. Forget about who is right or
>wrong, as I can assure you, no one is right or wrong. I've heard more
>bullshit from all sides of the fence, usually based on wrong impressions
>and on 4th hand information. There are few angels in this world,
>especially not you or Gary or me. What's that old saying, let he who is
>without sin throw the first stone? I haven't seen any angels throwing
>stones in this debate.
>
>Personally, I don't ever see Roy and Gary mending their bridge. Just
>accept it, forget it, and move on or things will only be made worse.
>Anyone on the killifish list will agree with me there. You have to see
>SOME killifish people to believe it!! Ok, enough philosophy for the
>moment.
>
>> As I said in my original post I get them here from Australia, breed them
and
>> make them available.... do I need to get them in your program too???
>
>If you want them to stay in the hobby in the US then I'd say yes. If
>you'd like to leave it to chance then I'd say it doesn't matter.
>
>> It seems to me the complaints are
>> coming in your articles with the lack of participation and referring to
>> people that dont breed as black holes.... When I respond you your
>> "Concerns" they are complaints... No Cary I dont think so.....
>
>When it comes to species maintenance programs people who don't breed fish
>are black holes. Are they not? Is this statement not a fact if taken
>literally? Species mainenance is by definition about breeding fish, if
>you don't breed them then it doesn't count. Sure, if Joe Blow (or
>Joesette Blow) is just keeping rainbows they may introduce others into the
>hobby who will, or do other things that are beneficial, but the odds of
>this are lower then if they breed a bunch themselves. "We" need
>more people breeding fish as there are too many for folks to presently
>manage and keep track of. Cary's article was a plea to people get
>involved, especially those people who are already breeding fish who aren't
>in the program, and also to encourage others to start breeding.
>
>People have taken his statement way out of context. Cary never said being
>a black hole meant you were the devil (as some have almost implied). Too
>much has been read between the lines here. Perhaps Cary should have used
>less stronger adjectives, perhaps others could consider his perspective
>too. Cary puts in a lot of time and effort into organising the program,
>he usually has to chase people up, then don't often come to him. It's a
>tough and unthankful job, but very important. He doesn't derive much
>benefit from doing it, other rainbowfish people in the US do. When those
>people then start to shit down your throat it doesn't rub off very well.
>It's a job I would never take on.
>
>Too many times these disputes arise without the "opposing sides"
>considering each others alternative perspectives. Often, once you can see
>things from another person's perspective you can begin to understand the
>arguement and the real issues of contention and come to a greater
>understaning of each other. So far, I have not seen too many people
>considering Cary's viewpoint. All I have seen is all out attack over
>initially just two words, "black hole". Stop attacking and start thinking
>a little more. There are no answers in this debate (as in most), no black
>and white, just shades of gray. And, showing a little greatfulness /
>recognition for the work that others do for the hobby never hurts either.
>I think Cary is doing a job unparralleled in any other aquarium hobbyist
>organisation in the world. Many clubs have tried and failed at this
>effort, the RSG's program is only a baby (and not it's first attempt), but
>it has a lot of potential as long as someone like Cary continues to put in
>his own passion, time, and effort. I think we all have a lot to thank him
>for, or at the very least consider when critisising him over two words.
>
>Tootles
>
>Peter J Unmack peter.unmack at asu.edu
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>DESERT FISHES RULE: To boldly thrive where no other fish can make it!
>
>Australian desert fishes pages at http://ozdesertfish.base.org (don't
>forget to visit the Desert Fishes Council pages too)
>Native Fish Australia pages at http://www.nativefish.asn.au
>North American Native Fishes Association at http://www.nanfa.org